Ever had that feeling that your point is just not being heard?
Once a week Mr.C, the kids and I go for “Family Breakfast”. This week my son needed to do his maths homework while we were waiting for food to arrive. His head was in maths when my husband said: “Mate, we have got to sort out your handwriting”.
(For context – his teachers over the last year or so have said this is something he could do with working on)
The 11-year-old immediately went on the defensive and the usual bickering then ensued.
The outcome? Our son won’t be changing his handwriting any time soon. My husband is frustrated that yet again he’s not been heard. And in a few weeks time, the same thing will happen again. In short – no one benefits and nothing changes.
Getting someone to buy into your point is something we have to do every day, whether you are on air, on screen, on stage, in a meeting, or just trying to get the other half to empty the bins.
And this one technique never fails: start by acknowledging your audience’s reality.
You know yourself that no one is going to change your mind about anything if they start talking to you while your head is in something else. And if you’re anything like me, my head is constantly in something.
Acknowledging the reality of the person you’re talking to allows their brain to come to you before you start getting into what it is you want to ask of them.
So if my husband had taken this tack:
“Is that your maths homework? How are you getting on with it?”
He would have engaged our son immediately. And after listening he may have been able to weave the conversation to something like:
“You know your teachers were talking about you improving your handwriting? Have you been working on it at all?”
“It’s just I can’t help but notice that you’re still struggling to get it neat – is there anything we can do to help it get better?”
Yes, it takes a little longer, but it has great results.
I had a builder that wasn’t answering my calls once, we had discovered a leak as a result of some work he had done, and I needed it fixing. He wasn’t returning my calls, and then I left this message:
“Hi. I know you’re likely to be super busy and the last thing you want is this old work to come back to haunt you, so if you could give me a call we can get it off your plate and out your hair as soon as possible”
He called me before the end of the day.
On stage you often see comedians start their sets by commenting on the location, whether that be the room itself or whether that be the town.
You can do the same in your presentation with something called a “Yes Set”. This is a simple technique that encourages the audience to agree with you too.
“I know you want to get home on time today”
Audience brain: “yes”
“And that you have seen a lot of people today”
Audience brain: “yes”
“So let me get straight to the point…”
Audience brain “yes”
The challenge is that you can’t see what your audience is doing, so really you are guessing as to their reality at the moment they are listening!
Sometimes it’s safe to assume. Often acknowledging your listeners’ reality is in capturing the time of day and the sense of the day. Saying hello and letting them know where they are, also acknowledges that that is their reality (eg “this is station FM / the pod podcast”).
Taking the time to introduce a topic with the listener experience is a clear way to ensure you are acknowledging their reality.
Rather than saying “There is a survey this morning that says meat is bad for you, so we have an expert here to talk about the challenge of getting people to stop eating it”
You might say “Imagine you are happily tucking into your favorite food, for someone to tell you that it’s significantly worse for you – would that stop you from eating it?”
Reviews used to solely be the rulers of the Theatre, Movies and Restaurants, with the “reviewers” in the newspapers given the credit of expert holding the success of their reviewees in the tip of their pens. In the 90s characters like actor Joey Tribbiani (yes, from Friends) were seen marching the streets of New York at 1 am, desperate to read the review of his play except: “Joey Tribbiani was able to achieve brilliant new levels of…. Sucking!”
These days everyone can review anything. And in the podcast world, those reviews are (currently) vital to the algorithm that helps the new audience find your podcast.
The issue is that to get people to review your podcast you have to ask them to. And that feels weird. It’s not in our nature to demand things for ourselves. It turns out though, you really can be quite demanding before someone will get mad at you! So after 4 months of asking nay BEGGING for reviews, I managed to learn and observe a few things to get it to work better:
Don’t Be Afraid To Ask – And Keep Asking
When you work in commercial radio you become accustomed to repeating your message – especially the more sales type ones. The idea being that not everyone is listening all the time to the linear broadcast format, and repetition means your audience remembers what they have heard. As a programmer I often winced at the number of times we would run premium text competitions in one day – but the audience would never fail to take part and the more we said it… the more money we would make (I know, makes you want to puke right?!)
So how often should you ask for reviews?
The answer – every episode. Oh, wait no, that’s not true.
Everyday Positivity is daily, and it usually only runs for up to 2 minutes. We recognised that we needed more reviews to get the Flash Briefing in front of more people. Every day asking for reviews, with a sell that sometimes ran to 60 seconds worth of instructions. The reviews went rocketing up and we started to grow the audience.
Then the inevitable happened:
Through reading the reviews I discovered that the repetition and lengthy way of asking for the reviews was not going down well with the audience:
“This is about 50% positivity and 50% fishing for reviews. Annoying.”
The solution has been to drop to 1 review request every 4 days and to keep it sharp. This means we are getting a steady flow of reviews, and (when I just checked while writing this) the number of irritated reviews has dropped off.
So context matters – if you do a weekly 30-minute podcast, a 1-minute review request is pretty harmless every episode. Every day for 2 minutes – a lighter less frequent review request works better.
2.What’s In It For Them
I have heard some podcasts give random prizes for reviews and I’ve seen articles about how that doesn’t work for the audience. Again I think it depends on your podcast and your audience as to whether this type of incentivisation works.
What is essential is that your “why” should be clear. Communicate your intent. I want everyone to know about Everyday Positivity because I want to help as many people as I can. So I say that when I talk about the reviews. “Leave a review and together we can make the world more positive”
Why should they review your podcast? Are they part of something if they do? What is the impact of their review?
3. Read Some Out
This week I started reading out reviews. It’s the social proof that your listeners need to know that this is what other people do too. They aren’t “weird” for doing it
I recently sampled The Property Podcast who did their review request about two thirds in. In reading the reviews they not only told other listeners that their podcast was great, they also sounded like they were talking to their audience by answering any questions that came up.
Oh and their line which I thought was nice: “Thanks to your reviews, we remain the most popular property podcast”
4. Give a strong call to action
Reviews aren’t easy to do. They may be easy to click through, but your listener is only going to want to go through it if they have absolutely nothing better to do. (See “Why”)
So make it as clear and easy as possible, and from time to time put the directions on how to review in there too.
5. Make It Fun
The Eggchasers Rugby Podcast (highly popular Rugby Podcast) will use their reviews as an opportunity for their listeners to be funny. They read out and encourage the listeners that leave a 5-star review and tongue in cheek joke about how awful the podcast is! This causes fun and hilarity all-round.
I’ve not worked out how to do this for my short form pod yet but I always think about how creative it is and think about how I can make the reviews read more fun.
My favourite thing about getting reviews is that you can really hone your podcast. It encourages you to try and so you do a bit, and then get some feedback, and if you use that feedback wisely you can streamline your podcast into a really bright, marvellous programme with a growing active audience.
Remember how you saw that guy talking about podcasting at an event and he said “yeh so the audience got so big that I make a living out of this now” and your brain goes: “ooooh maybe I could make a living out of this”… so you make your podcast, you do the work, you put it out there and you wait…
How do you attract listeners? How do you grow your audience? And how on earth do you earn a living out of it?
Over the summer I launched “Everyday Positivity” on Amazon Echo. It’s daily audio, up to 2 minutes, of me doing a piece that breathes positivity into your day with tips, techniques, pep talks, stories. (If you are a radio person it’s basically a “link” every day). I like to think of it a bit like a modern-day “Thought for the Day” with a Life Hack vibe to it.
For the last 4 months, it’s only been available as a Flash Briefing, on the Amazon Echo. As I write this we have just launched as a podcast on “your podcast provider”. I wanted to capture and share with you the audience growth learnings so far from being in this unique, quality controlled space.
To grow audience then:
Get in the space early / Be unique
I jumped on the opportunity to put Everyday Positivity on to Amazon Echo as there’s not much on there at the moment. It reminds me of podcasting about 5 years ago, when the mutterings were that podcasts were good but you know “who’s gonna listen”? Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
I am hopeful that by owning some of that original space I can grow a tribe of people who feel like they are part of the movement, and I love them dearly.
I’ve watched many podcasts grow from nothing because they have the benefit of original space. Eggchasers (Mr Cs podcast) was the first Rugby Podcast like it 5 years ago. He treated it like it was a job, and 5 years later he is surrounded by similar podcasts, with big-name presenters, and his podcast is holding strong.
But what do you do if you missed the original space already? My advice would be to just start.
Be unique: Everyday Positivity is short form, and could only be done by me because I use my personal experiences and loves.
Be consistent with your delivery: eg every Monday or monthly, or daily. And commit to a period of time.
Be consistent with your value to your listener: work out your why/mission and stick to it.
2. Get boosts: use influencers and influential platforms
In terms of the growth graph what you should generally see (as long as you are consistent, of value to your listener and you are marketing through the normal channels) is a steady climb. But then there are some things that give you an audience boost, and the climb should then continue again at the same steady rate.
To make “Everyday Positivity” I work with Volley, and they also have a Flash Briefing called “Word of the Day” – it has a huge audience. When I guest on Word of the Day we get a lovely boost in audience. Then we maintain the same growth rate we did before.
Influencers also have an impact. I worked on the weekly Love Island podcast “Undercover Lover” over the summer. We were seeing good listenership until one week it went a bit bonkers. An Instagrammer with a large following had locked themselves out of their house and on their Insta story said they were sat on their doorstep listening to “Undercover Lover”.
Not only did the podcast see the growth that week, but it also impacted on Everyday Positivity too as the presenter of Undercover Lover had Instagrammed about that!
As an aside this “boost and steady” growth is consistent with other platforms. When you look at the graph of BBC Radio 6 Music listenership over the years there is a steady climb, then the station was threatened with shut down, and the listenership got a huge boost. The PR from the outraged listeners was unexpected but saved the station, and then some. They haven’t had a boost like it since, but the steady climb has continued and it’s consistently one of the UK’s top DAB Radio Stations in terms of audience.
3. Get reviews
Launching a podcast is hard work, and the temptation to get in the charts means that you are good at asking for reviews at the start but it tails off. It also feels weird asking for reviews, a little pushy.
The thing is reviews, and 5 star at that, make you more findable*, especially in the Amazon world. So you need to be clear about what you want the audience to do, and why.
I’ve seen success around regularly asking, being honest “you reviews mean that more people can find this Flash Briefing and we can spread positivity far and wide” and being instructional “click on the link and leave a 5 star review – it’s quick and easy”. As always clarity on why and how rules.
I’ll say it time and time again, these tricks work, but consistent growth comes from the consistent performance: delivery and quality. Volley and I work hardest at making sure that Everyday Positivity is there every day when you wake up, and I try to make it so that every episode is fresh and adds value to the audience. Plus, I just really love it. I love the listeners, and I feel like together we can change the world for the better. That’s a pretty good “why” right?
One word has the power to undermine your authority.
The presenter on the radio is telling a story about how he came out of his house to find someone had sprayed hummus over his car. “Hummus?” He said “That’s a very Waitrose style vandalisation! I have arrived” He let it hang… then said the one word that makes me scream at the radio…
I screamed at the radio.
As a presenter, you are an authority.
When you say “Anywaaayy” you are undermining yourself.
It’s one thing to be self-deprecating, or to lose track, but when you are telling your story the word “Anywayyy” gets right in the way.
The solution: just pause and move on to the next thing. Use something else to get you out – some audio, some music, or if you are presenting on stage a new slide.
It often transpires that the presenter hasn’t fully thought the story through, or they didn’t quite believe the story or what they are saying. Have confidence in your content. Make sure you do the prep. And remember just cos you can’t hear them laughing doesn’t mean they aren’t (and that goes for if you can see your audience or not).
When I start many of my video calls I am met with a face of fear as the mic their end isn’t working and they can’t hear me. Then there is a lot of flapping while I am mouthing the instructions at them. Then sometimes people call for the resident tech person and there is more flapping as I watch them blush their way through explaining what they need. Then they find the one button I had been trying to tell them to use and it all of a sudden works, and we are all very relieved.
I see this all the time. Like when I watch people try to present in meeting rooms. You are guaranteed that the console NEVER works when you need it to. You get your laptop out, find the lead you think it is, and you plug it in. “It worked yesterday,” you say to the team. But this time it doesn’t work. So you flap because this is the start of the meeting and you need to get on and you have NO IDEA what to do. You call the resident tech person who sorts it in 2 easy clicks of a button, and everyone is relieved.
Whatever situation you are in, when you speak in public there will be technology to deal with. But for a lot of people, this is a real barrier. Panicking when you see a sound desk in a radio studio can stop you from achieving your dream to be a broadcaster. Not knowing what to do with the PowerPoint set up can add to your nerves before your presentation. And not knowing how to set up your camera can mean that YouTube Channel is never going to happen.
Here is your 4 step guide to becoming a tech whiz;
1. Be Positive and Roll With It
Online Business Guru, Marie Forleo says that when it comes to technology it’s all about “Attitude Not Aptitude”.
Often we tell ourselves we are no good at technology because when it goes wrong we don’t know what to do. More often than not it then goes wrong. Let’s get real though: Tech is bound to go wrong, it’s probably not all your fault, but the solution isn’t coming any quicker if you panic! Just roll with it.
I remember when I was sat upstairs at BBC Radio 6 Music and a pre-recorded show misfired the news. We ran downstairs and started troubleshooting. The best thing for us to do was let the Emergency CD kick in. We all stood there calmly as the silence played for long enough for the CD to kick in. Those few seconds felt like an age! I remember feeling a surge of calm control as the music kicked in and we were able to then work out what to do next.
Before you knew it we were back on air and all was well again. The listeners barely noticed.
It taught me that staying calm and not flapping is the most productive state you can be in, in that situation.
2. Have a Plan B
So the slides stop working in your presentation, or the audio won’t play. Use it as an excuse to tell another story while it’s being sorted. Or go and grab a drink. Or have a line ready for you to get back on track. As part of your prep beforehand, have a plan B for what happens if something falters. Remember if you are comfortable, then the audience is comfortable.
Make sure you always have your presentation on a memory stick, audio on your phone, a Bluetooth speaker, spare batteries – whatever it is that means you can cover for the fact that the tech in the location isn’t working.
3. Keep Checking
If you are filming or recording a podcast with a guest, never leave without checking the audio has recorded. I have had presenters go and record the interviews of their life,
notably with Madonna and with Arctic Monkeys. They return to the station to find they pressed stop instead of record! Keep checking throughout that you are recording and at the end check it’s recorded and sounds OK before you leave the building.
4. Learn It
Take some time to get familiar with the equipment around you. We rely so much on the settings being right and hoping that the tech will just work. Get your resident engineer or tech expert to show you how to do it once and for all. Draw pictures, ask questions. Gather an understanding of inputs and outputs and you’ll find you can troubleshoot a lot of situations.
Also, know your cables. Last week I got a projector with an Ethernet cable plugged into it as if it was an input. I couldn’t get it out! It was in the wrong hole!
And knowing the difference between a phono and a jack will mean you can get the engineer to help you – because you then know some of their language!
Tech is easier than you think, and a bit of training on the fundamentals can really help you in the future.
On that note: If you are a podcaster or budding radio producer/presenter who wants to get a really good grounding in sound, AND get your audio to sound high quality then check out Tech Train 2.0 that I am putting on with Broadcast Engineer Ann Charles in December in Manchester.
It’s for women in radio/podcasting who want to feel like they know what they are doing, and it will help you become completely unflappable. Find out more and get your tickets here.